Collective Intelligence: Angels in Scientific Terms | with John Vervaeke

John Vervaeke, PhD, is an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto in the departments of psychology, cognitive science and Buddhist psychology. This conversation between us happened in the wake of the Four Horsemen of Meaning discussion we had that also included Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron (linked below).

We continue the discussion of meaning, trying to bridge the symbolic worldview with John Vervaeke’s background in cognitive science and psychology. We discussion the way attention creates the world, the internet, the meaning of sacrifice and prophesy, transformation and synergy, collective attention and ultimately asking the question: do angels actually exist?

– The 4 Horsemen of Meaning discussion with Jordan Peterson, John Vervaeke, Bishop Barron and Jonathan Pageau:

– John’s YouTube channel:…
– Awakening from the Meaning Crisis playlist:…
– John’s discussion with Jordan Peterson: A Conversation so Intense It Might as Well Be Psychedelic | John Vervaeke | The JBP Podcast | S4 E34:


00:00:00 – Introduction
00:01:23 – The Four Horsemen
00:04:32 – The new zeitgeist
00:09:01 – The internet as the One Ring
00:14:01 – Attention: sacrifice and prioritization
00:18:54 – The 2 sacrifices: ruling in & ruling out
00:23:38 – Attention is synergistic & transformative
00:26:50 – Attention is shared
00:28:39 – The power of joined attention
00:33:16 – Joined attention & our current situation
00:35:52 – The pendulum swing of fasting
00:38:58 – Attention culminating into personhood
00:50:31 – The form & the vehicle
00:53:31 – Transpersonal beings
01:04:29 – Are transpersonal beings conscious?
01:11:18 – Outro


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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
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